Windows XP Mode Internals – Part 1 (Overview)

is this will be available also for vista or for windows 7 only

[...] Windows XP Mode Internals – Part 1 (Overview) (Rafael Rivera Jr.) [...]

But…
If I have an hardware that doesn’t have drivers for vista&7 (it is a video editing card ;)), would it be possible to use it in XP mode installing drivers in the virtual Windows XP to communicate directly with the card :D?
And… Is there an option to launch always Windows XP in background every system startup :)?

1) Will the copy of VPC 7 be usable with other VMs, or is it dedicated (at the moment) to run only the XP VM? IOW, could we run (say) the Visual Studio 2010 CTP on it (with multi-monitor, USB support, etc)?

2) And any word on when a standalone (but presumably/hopefully still free) version of VPC 7 will be available?

3) I assume XPM will be available on both 32 and 64 bit versions of Win7?

4) Do we get 2 versions of XP, 32-bit on Win7-32 and 64-bit on Win7-64? Or is always the 32-bit XP version?

5) If it’s the 32-bit version, I guess this means that we can still run 16-bit apps (I still have a few old games!), even under Win7-64?

Will this option work on a Windows 7 x64 install with x64 drivers but one wants to run a XP x32 virtual setup to be able to use the programs that just won’t run on a x64 setup… Or do the drivers make this not possible…

Will the copy of the XP on the .vmd file be pre-activated? So can we make a copy of the file before first use and use it to get a clean install in case something crops up?

I find this to be a GREAT feature. I have been using virtual copies of XP and Server 2003 for years. Though I have been using other virtualization programs that have offered integrated modes, but having that now built into the OS is genus!

Sean, Genius.. Yeah.. Just like Apple’s solution to OS 9 compatibility issues… I’m not knocking it though, I think that it will be very useful.. But it does not address issues with things like running on an IPX novell network.. or does it?

Chris

Will this let me use my ATI Radeon 9600 tv tuner part inside of XP mode running in a Windows 7 enviroment? I hate having to dual boot XP and Vista/7 just be able to use my TV tuner! Vista and 7 have a new display model that doesn’t let windows recognize the TV tuner part.

[...] well I’ll be…  Looks like Rafael Rivera and Paul Thurrott have the inside scoop on this [...]

I don’t understand that when Microsoft has **App-V** which is such an elegant application virtualization solution, why type 2/hosted VM which is already possible except for the integration part? It’s not the free XP copy I value, it’s the ability to run XP apps without XP on Windows 7 that’s valuable and what exactly App-V does. XP Mode will still need to be patched (even though it’s automtic), still defragmented once in a while, still take up more than a gig of space, still need to be booted/rebooted, still not give me near-native performance as App-V with MSI deployment, still give me XP bits which I don’t need (all the old XP apps sheesh!). The whole overhead of a type 2 VM (entire OS inside another OS) is still there, WHY not App-V, Microsoft when it doesn’t require a server anymore? Is sequencing an app really that difficult in App-V?

Does this mean that going forward all new Virtual PC 7 versions will be locked to Windows 7? Will the free standalone VPC7 run on XP/Vista and will it have the RDP RemoteApp/integrated apps/desktop-less functionality? USB?

What about the licensing of the xp vhd? Do you have to have an xp and Windows 7 license, or will Windows 7 pro,ent, ulitimate editions all give you one free XP vm to run?

Either way an interesting approach. XPirate, I suspect this is for the organisations that cannot afford to purchase App-V or the MDOP packs from MS. Small businesses that still have app s that need XP that willnever be updated.

Cheers
David

How long does it take to load up if you click on any software from XPM Folder (start menu)?

Does that mean we have to wait for Windows XP to boot up first?

For those who want to try it early… you can download and play with the MED-V demo it is similar but not quite the same. Once run, Virtual PC will not run as only one can be run at a time. MED-V also does not require the CPU support virtualization like XPM. I wish for XPM (of course it wouldn’t be ‘XP’M) virtualization that MS would allow running win2000 in the VM as we have some customers who are unable to move forward because of some lagacy apps.

Is that a new Notepad icon i see there (or do you have another app that opens txt files?)

I personally think XPM is a great start – I can see massive potential to having virtual sand-boxed apps for future versions..

How big is the virtual windows xp, VHD file ?
And the whole package needed to run windows xp ?

I can imagine it is big.

From which build did you get those screenshots?
Or is there any way to test this feature with the RC?

William: That’s the default icon for TXT files, for the default association with Notepad.

There are a couple “Mini” XP repackages out there (on the internets) called TinyXP and MicroXP, which attempt to produce minimal XP with maximum supported features. MicroXP is balanced toward minimalism while TinyXP is balanced toward features (but it’s still pretty small).

MicroXP takes up about 350mb when installed and TinyXP takes up about 700mb. I also have a Windows Fundamental install here (it’s based off of XP) which takes up 2gb. Of course my regularly used Windows XP install takes up signifigantly more since it’s well used.

MS isn’t going to remove components and risk compatibility so the size will probably be closer to 2gb and will grow as you install apps and use the disk. However MS may allow for applications to be installed on the host drive and ran from the guest OS, while only using the VHD to store guest OS files. This would solve the problem of sharing files between host and guest, perhaps easier than hooking open/save dialogs like I mentioned earlier as a possible solution.

Anyways MS could still cut many of their standalone optional apps from the XP VM, such as Windows Media Player and Internet Explorer, to save some space… though the backends to these apps would have to remain since third-party programs embed them. Windows Movie Maker could also go.

I’m sure you will still have the ability to strip out components from the VM just like any other XP install though (I’d back up the VHD first though if I were you, since the integration runs deep removing components may disrupt it).

[...] Paul Thurrott has published cool pictures about the XPM setup on his SuperSite for Windows! Click here to visit the gallery. Rafael has also a nice post about XPM. [...]

Virtual PC 7? Is that really what the next version of VPC is going to be called, when the product was already at version 7
back in early 2005, when it was still being made for Apple Mac users? To go back to a old version number from 4 years
ago seems rather silly and somewhat counter-productive to me. Why not call it Virtual PC 2009? That way, it least
follows on logically from the current release version, Virtual PC 2007.

Greg — The current Virtual PC is (according to Help | About) 6.0.192.0.

So it’s quite reaonable that the next release (whatever they actually call the product) will be 7.0.

Do you think this concept could be extented to integrate other Virtual Machines, like a dosbox environment or, speak about crazy, a linux compatibility ?

Virtual PC for Mac was an x86 emulator for PowerPC. No virtualization involved, despite the name. Completely separate codebase from Virtual PC for Windows. Today, some of the innards of Virtual PC for Mac are used to run XBox games on XBox 360.

It still makes no sense to go back to the version number of an obsolete product line. At the end of the day, it’s still the same
product “Virtual PC”, even if the older versions started out life as a PC emulator made originally for Apple Mac users, built
upon a “completely seperate codebase”. What were the internal version numbers (under Help – About) for all the older
versions of Virtual PC (for both Windows and Mac OS) prior to the release of Virtual PC 2004?

If the two previous versions of VPC were released as VPC2004, and VPC2007 respectively, then to avoid future confusion
wouldn’t it make more sense to name the next version Virtual PC 2010? and the “7″ version number should be restricted
to the beta milestones, much like Microsoft does with versions of Office.

I suggest naming it “Virtual PC for Windows 7″ and (for those that stick with XP and Vista) “Virtual PC 2010″.

Greg,

Don’t confuse a version number with the name of the product. The name is a string of characters, chosen by marketing. It may have mnemonic value (“VPC 2009″), it may have enticement value (note how car manufacturers are now advertising 2010 versions of their vehicles). And so on. But ultimately it’s just a string of characters.

The version number is used by (among others) programmers. If your program, for example, wants to prompt you to “Save your data to a hard drive, floppy disk or USB stick”, then it can check to see if it’s running Windows (Linux, whatever) under VPC. If the VPC version is 6 or earlier, you can’t save to a USB stick; those versions of VPC didn’t support USB devices. You should display just a “Save to hard drive or floppy” message.

[...] http://www.withinwindows.com/2009/04/25/windows-xp-mode-internals-part-1-overview/ [...]

[...] Those who are interested in the gory technical details can read Rafael Rivera’s breakdown of Windows XP Mode Internals. var federated_media_section = [...]

[...] (Those who are interested in the gory technical details, go read Rafael Rivera’s breakdown in Windows XP Mode Internals). If you only want to run a single XP VM on Windows, this sounds like it will be a lot easier than [...]

wow so it will still require a key. i see money making opportunities for Microsoft

[...] Windows XP Mode Internals – Part 1 (Overview) – He links to Rafael’s beginning of his deep-dive into XP Mode for Windows 7. [...]

@XPirate, I think you are somewhat mistaken on what APP-V can do; it is NOT a compatability technology. This is a common misconception, and I understand why this is misunderstood sometimes. APP-V is extremely valuable, but not for pure app/OS compat. If there is a fundamental incompatability between an application and the OS (or a core OS component), APP-V will not necessary help with that. It definately helps with applications that conflict with other applications, but not the OS. An example might help. If you sequence an application using APP-V that requires XP because it uses components in IE6, for example, that sequenced app will NOT run on Vista or Windows 7 because the components in the OS that it needs are not there (and OS components are not sequenced as part of the application). Because APP-V does not sequence the whole OS (just the application), it can’t help with certain OS/application compatability issues that MED-V (or XPM in this case) can, because the whole OS is virtualized.

APP-V and MED-V can actually be complimentary, though. In the example above APP-V could be used under the MED-V OS to publish the applications needed.

I just wanted to clear up why a cousin to MED-V was used in this case rather than a cousin to APP-V, as you suggested.

Bill~

I have one copy of XP still installed for only one reason; My Matrox video editing card. I use Premiere Pro 2.5 with it and I cannot go higher with it. There is new hardware for Vista and beyond but I won’t be upgrading anytime soon. Will using this allow me to run PP2.5 with the Matrox drivers loaded and have it still work properly? This is also in X32 mode only. If so, this is a dream solution for me. I would love to reclaim the partition I have XP on for other, more useful stuff.

–Jerry

Jerry: Depends on which part isn’t compatible – if it’s Premiere Pro that’s not Vista/Win7 compatible then it’s a possibility; but if it’s the drivers for the Matrox card then it will definitely be no go, ie. the ‘virtual pc’ relies on the hardware support of the native Windows version. Even then not all functions are passed through, eg some of DirectX, hence why Virtual PCs aren’t an option for most games.

You can always try it in Vista or Win7 by running with the current release of VirtualPC or VMWare.

billwill: So are you saying APP-V is Microsoft’s answer to VMWare’s Thinapp? ie. just packages software with the files they require, and in case of APP-V are then streamed from a server?

That would in turn make Virtual PC equivalent to WMWare Workstation, and MED-V the same but with stream from server (think that’s the Infrastructure software in VMWare world, no?).

Is that correct?

Please give me some indication of whether XPM is capable of hosting the 3D accelerated games of today & tomorrow (with acceptable framerates :)) That’d be good to know if purely from a curiosity perspective.

How will XPM deal with viruses and malware?
Even if XPM is an isolated component of Windows 7, do I have to buy/install two antivirus programs? (one for win7 and the other for XPM)

@Adam:

That is fairly correct, though IMHO Virtual PC was more like a simpler version of vmware player with the ability to make new virtual machines than the fullblown mature feature rich package that is vmware workstation ;)

@Kulin:
No idea if XPM supports hw 3D accelleration, but you should try vmware workstation 6.5 or vmware fusion (on Mac) 30 day trials. They have 3D in virtual machines…. Much of DirectX9 even…

@Francisco:
Technically, that seems likely/the case.

@Larry Smith
1) Will the copy of VPC 7 be usable with other VMs
It seems like XPM is really a bundled package of a new version of Virtual PC with Windows XP. Ironically, with the name being Virtual PC 7 and everything, this is EXACTLY like the deal Microsoft offered Mac owners before when you bought Virtual PC 7 for MacOS X with a bundled Windows XP SP2 licence that got automatically installed and setup for you. Yet you still got the complete Virtual PC product and could create other new VMs as well, running any OS capable of running in Virtual PC (which includes some Linux distributions with more or less success)

3) I assume XPM will be available on both 32 and 64 bit versions of Win7?
Virtual PC 2007 runs on both 32-bit and 64-bit WinXP and Vista, though only supporting 32-bit guests. I guess it remains to be seen if VPC7 introduces 64-bit guest support however :)

4) Do we get 2 versions of XP, 32-bit on Win7-32 and 64-bit on Win7-64? Or is always the 32-bit XP version?
Given that the product is designed to facilitate compatibility with older ill-behaved applications, and Microsoft are trying to take a clean break with the past in their 64-bit portfolio, it will be bundled with WinXP 32 bit only, irregardless of 32/64-bit of the product itself. However, it remains to be seen if it introduce 64-bit guest support, in which case you can always install WinXP x64 yourself ;)

5) If it’s the 32-bit version, I guess this means that we can still run 16-bit apps (I still have a few old games!), even under Win7-64?
That would be one of the benefits, yes. Its technically an enclosed PC with 32-bit WinXP after all. And of course you can always create your own virtual machine and run Win 3.11 or Windows 98 ;)

Hi!

Could I run native IE8 simultaneously side-by-side with virtual IE6 *and* IE7?

Thank you.

Kulin: From what I’ve read so far the answer is no. Some games will work but no all and not at the best frame rates. Unfortunately it’s not aimed for that rather business software compatibility.

Francisco: To be fully covered then yes, you will need one for each. However, since the XP is virtualized it shouldn’t infect the rest of Windows if you do get caught, and it’s easy to reset a virtual machine, so in day to day use it’s not really necessary. Think Mac-like (thou for different reasons): in theory yes malware could be a problem, but in practice it’s unlikely.

Hamachi: Yes and no. Believe you can only run one Virtual Machine at a time, Thus, IE8 would be Win7 and IE6 Virtual Win XP, leaving no scope for running IE7. Fortunately, though the Microsoft Expression team have recently released a free download that allows IE7 and IE8 rendering/comparison so you can always use that.

Oh, according to Paul Thurrott XPM will actually support other OS’s (not sure exactly which though).

Thus, I guess it’s best to think of WXM as just a newer version of Microsoft’s Virtual PC product coupled with a XP SP3 disc image and licence. The new features being tailored to Win7 and integrating the virtualization with the Win7 desktop (so end-users don’t have to run two clear different desktops; although for setup etc they do still exist).

@Billwil, but that’s because App-V is unable to sequence OS components. Certain OS components up to XP that are really installed later using INF-based installs (instead of merely “enabled”) can be sequenced. The pre-installed components can’t be sequenced. If Microsoft really componentized each component (such as IE, instead of merely hiding it when turned off) such that it is installed after the base minimal OS required to boot (and used methods of adding and removing components that are sequencing friendly unlike NT 6.x’s Component Based Servicing, App-V can serve users for app/OS compatibility.

Also, VPC doesn’t support games because MS didn’t add Direct3D and OpenGL support and didn’t supply a WDDM compatible driver with later OSes that works with virtualized hardware of VMs that support Direct3D 9.

[...] su blog Within Windows Rafael Rivera nos cuenta en entregas detalles técnicos de la solución. Lo primero lo que ya sabíamos: en el corazón de [...]

The question of anti-virus for virtual machines comes up frequently in the Virtual PC newsgroup, and the frequent answer is this: treat it as you would a real machine. If it’s on your network, treat it as a real machine on your network. If it shares folders, you have yet another area of exposure.

I can imagine that XPM could have a set of more protected interfaces that reduce the exposure, but since the objective is to have Windows XP-based computation accessible on your real machine, I would bet that there are considerable areas of exposure.

Given that, I make extensive use of Virtual PC and have about two dozen virtual machines (different operating systems, different configurations) for testing. I don’t use anti-virus software because most of my virtual machines are fired up so rarely that they would always be out-of-date when I started them, and I always use undo disks and start from a known configuration. (However, I do run Windows Defender if it is part of the particular system — what does it “defend” against, anyway?)

I don’t seem to be getting the Virtual XP Applications folder … is there a way to force this? Or have I perhaps done something wrong?

I have a question… When you use Virtual PC to emulate Windows XP (or any other OS), your actual Hardware -does not- get emulated, and instead, the OS starts using the Virtual PC’s drivers (I.E. a Standard VGA video card which won’t support Direct3D, making XPM really useless to use for applications like AutoCad or Video Games).

Is this XPM going to use our actual Hardware (I.E. our nVidia or ATI videocard, sound card, etc) or will it be just another Virtual PC with Windows 7 integration capabilities?

See ya^^

I’ve been pasting applications into the All Users Start Menu folder, and not all of them appear. Eg: Notepad, IE6, Firefox appears in Windows 7, But MSPaint, Minesweeper, and most the the default installed XP apps do not show up. How come?

Awesome Post man

[...] http://www.withinwindows.com/2009/04/25/windows-xp-mode-internals-part-1-overview/ [...]

Lorloki, me meither and I am using the x64 bits. Did you find a way to enable it?

Found it… just Disable/Enable Auto Publish in the VM settings. It’s strange however that the Applications Folder does not show up on first run although the Auto Publish option is enabled by default.

Hi there,

I’ve downloaded the VPC and the XPMode, and I’m also sure that the virtualization is enabled in the bios.
After I 1st start the XPmode by clicking the link on the windows 7 start menu, and accepting the terms, entering the user name and password, as soon as it starts to configure, “setting up Virtual Windows XP for first use”, the process that was said to be not “speedy ” above, the whole Windows 7 just restarts. I’ve tried for at least 5 times and it does the same thing, keeps restarting. Can someone tell me what is the problem?

It would be great if I could get an email reply :sharonskleung@hotmail.com

thank you very much.

Sharon

Is there a way to use XP compatible hardware in the XPmode? In 7’s device manager I see my custom HW board without a valid driver, when running in Virtual XP mode the board doesn’t show up in device manager. I understand I am looking at virtual drivers at this point, however, is there or will there be a way to install the XP driver in virutal mode?

Thanks,
Dion

I just installed the Virtual PC and then downloaded the Virtual XP. When I run the virtual machine for the first time, I see the EULA, user info and status bars. It take a very long time to run and would eventually fail with an error message. I saw on another site that if you press Control Esc, it will bring up the actual console view rather than the progress bars. This was somewhat helpful. I was able to see the Windows scripting window seemed to be stuck. So I simply closed the box and windows continued to load. I thought I was out of the woods… well the woods got bigger. When after I ran all the XP updates and restarted the virtual machine, it was like DeJaVu. The same EULA and progress bars came up again… So I think something wasn’t fully setup or saved properly. Anyone else having this sort of trouble? Solutions?

In preparation for possible upgrade to 64bit Windows 7 one of my concerns is my 16 bit text mode financial software- (Quicken 7 believe it or not). It works just fine (the Intuit people don’t believe this!) in an 32 bit XP command prompt and even prints to an network printer that it thinks is on LPT1 (@NET USE LPT1: \\RALUEY\HPLJP3005 /PERSISTENT:YES).

It sounds like Virtual XP may be the answer. Any feedback appreciated.

[...] http://www.withinwindows.com/2009/04/25/windows-xp-mode-internals-part-1-overview/ [...]

Seems a lot of interpretive explanations for “Windows XP Mode” what is in fact simply the means to run XP Programs that are not compatible in windows 7.

Obviously you only qualify for Windows XP Mode if you have purchased Windows 7 Professional, Enterprise, or Ultimate, and yes, although not given to you, the installation automatically has an XP ID and is loaded with a Key for the Windows XP Pro SP3 installation for Windows XP Mode.

However at the end of the day, all it is and achieves is, what “Compatibility Mode” did in Vista and the result is the same! i.e. allows you to run 3rd party XP only compatible programs in a Windows 7 environment that are not compatible in Windows 7 !

This could also have come about because someone forgot to put “Compatibility Mode” in Windows 7, so as an after thought they invented a new method of doing the same and called it “Windows XP Mode”

And the rest is Microsoft Marketing Propaganda and Hype to ween you completely of XP and hope that the new exaggerations and claims of Windows 7, replacing the unpopular Vista and failed targeted sales, will now be recovered in Windows 7 launch, which in my mind is simply a SP for Vista with a new name!

BTW: The upgrade from XP Pro SP3 to Windows 7 is not worth the effort if you have a lot of 3rd party XP programs loaded! Strongly suggest that you check the Windows 7 compatibility of all your XP programs!

Happy Computing Folks.

What’s the score on using pre-existing virtual machines (such as Win 98SE or Linux) created on older versions of Virtual PC within the new Virtual PC?

Bob C

I have messed up the credentials used to access Windows XP Mode. I tried using my network login instead of the default and that didn’t work. Does anyone know what the default domain and username are? I know the password.

Thanks,

Alan

Successfully installed an XP Property Management program in Windows 7 XP mode. Problem: cannot print checks now. Need printer driver. Question: do install the printer driver while in XP mode? Will printer still work in Windows 7 if I install printer driver in XP mode? Please help. Thank you.

I have a photo printer that does not have Win 7 drivers and the manufacturer has anounced it will not release any since it is now discontinued. Will the XP and 32 bit Vista driver work if installed under in XP mode? Thanks.

I’m less pleased with the XP Mode incarnation of Virtual PC than with previous version. While it now allows better access to installed hardware, audio and video functionality are sub par. Sound is choppy, graphics are relegated to a 16 bit color depth and video playback of even small, simple files is horrible (at best). It seems obvious MS wants the world to migrate away from XP apps in that respect. If your XP-only apps don’t require any of those features, it seems to run “far”.

Bob Luey: Your text based Quicken 7 should work in Windows XP Mode the same as in real XP. Any computer able to handle Windows 7 should have no problem working with the text based application.

Ann Su: You should be able to go into Integrated Features (under Settings on the virtual machine), enable the printer and use what’s already installed under Windows 7.

Larry Smith: I ported an old XP VM (which I’d been using in Vista) over to VPC7 and it ran fine. In fact, until I enabled the “Integrated Features” that allows access to USB devices and other hardware outside the VM environment, it actually had 32 bit color depth and ran more smoothly than the supplied XP Mode machine.

All-in-all, I’ll stick with my dual-boot configuration for access to XP. XP Mode simply doesn’t meet my needs for day-to-day use.

Xp mode in win7 is far to be good. It does not detect all the capabilities that are in the main system, Win7. I had to install again the printer, in win7 I have 4 Gb RAM. XP mode detects only 512 MB!!! Now, when I try to install the video card nvidia 512 Mb I receive an error message…
I think that Microsoft should be able to fix this soon in order to satisfy people and enterprises needs…

will all windows xp drivers (my old tuner card, creative 5.1 live card, scanner drivers) installed in xp mode? please.

I have upgraded from Windows 7 Premium to Professional, gone into BIOS and enabled virtulazation mode, yet when I go to microsofts download site for XP Mode and Virutual Mode and click on “Download XP Mode” it takes me to next window stating windows cannot open this window. I have so much software for my business (recording studio) that has not been updated to work with Windows 7 64bt. I am desperate to get this to work. Any answers will be greatly appreciatted.

May God Bless Your Day,
Russell

I’m running windows 7 professional and have installed virtual PC and XP mode but I’m unable to set the display resloution higher that 16bits in xp mode.
Any help woud be greatly appreciated.

Kerron

Windows 7 With Windows XP Mode

http://www.tips29.com/2009/11/windows-7-with-windows-xp-mode.html

# Abdel Valdes December 12, 2009 at 12:08 pm

Xp mode in win7 is far to be good. It does not detect all the capabilities that are in the main system, Win7. I had to install again the printer, in win7 I have 4 Gb RAM. XP mode detects only 512 MB!!! Now, when I try to install the video card nvidia 512 Mb I receive an error message…
I think that Microsoft should be able to fix this soon in order to satisfy people and enterprises needs…

Abdel, you can change the 512 mb on XP mode when XP is off by going in the XP virtual and in the settings, change the memory to what you want. It’s works fine.

Gino

As stated by William Butler December 6, 2009 at 7:54 pm,

We are dealing with very expensive and specialised scientific equipement. Dual boot seems for the moment to be the alternative to some Win7 64-bit problem. We are trying to reinstall some instruments in University and it is a quite a challenge. The software keys (LPT port) are seen in the WP mode but doesn’t fonction in XP mode when it is quite easy to install on XP.

We have downgraded to Win7 32-bits for some computer because dual boot is difficult with multiusers.