Windows 7 to support third-party codecs… like all other Windows versions
In a typical inaccuracy-laden FUD-like fashion, Gizmodo ran a story on March 26th regurgitating some rumblings from Damien Bain-Thouverez, a ffdshow (Tryout fork) developer, indicating that Windows 7 may block the use of third-party codecs (those small voodoo pieces of software that let you watch your illegally downloaded Bluray rips).
Damien indicated this “blocking” behavior occurs in Windows 7 build 7057. I’ve tested and confirmed the behavior still exists, in 7068, but it’s obviously broken (or working this way for a specific, temporary reason). I’m sure when Microsoft flips the non-beta switch, they will support third-party codecs as they have since… Windows 3? (Gold star to whomever can find references to earlier use)
The thought of Microsoft moving to alienate its bajillion users by blocking the use of third-party codecs in Windows 7 Windows Media Player (and its wrapper Windows Media Center) is insanely ridiculous. While Microsoft usually remains silent on issues that arise in unofficial builds, they made an exception to my inquiry (due to the inaccuracies floating around) and had this to say:
As we move toward the release of Windows 7, we have worked to add more codecs and file types to allow for a better user experience. We also allow Microsoft experiences to use codecs and other format technologies from third-party companies, just as we always have. Third party applications can use the Microsoft codecs or their own. Microsoft does not restrict the use of third-party codecs. – Microsoft Spokesperson
I have a feeling the only reason the block is there is so that it forces testers to actually test the new Microsoft-provided codecs. This way they can be sure that even if a tester installs FFDShow, DivX, XviD, et al…, they’re still testing the right codec.
“Third party applications can use the Microsoft codecs or their own” thats the problem, the do not say WMP or 7MC. There should not even be code to block other codecs, it should just be merit based like it always has been
That’s a relief.
Some people are guessing that although it will still be possible to install 3rd party codecs, those will not be able to replace pre-installed codecs.
This would possibly make sense as 3rd party “codec packs” and software are notorious for breaking playback to the point of needing a Windows reinstall. (Happened to me once and to people I know after installing a commercial DVD playback program).
Of course, this would be a shame in cases where a custom codec for a factory supported format provides lesss CPU-intensive decoding or better picture quality for example.
Problem might be that Windows Media Player 12 has now fully switched to Media Foundation, it only falls back to DirectShow if an equivalent Media Foundation codec isn’t present. Now, Microsoft might have protected its Media Foundation versions of the codecs as part of the OS’s Resource Protection or maybe through the registry? OOTB MF codecs can’t be replaced, fair enough, but is there/will there be a way to force Windows Media Player 12 to use DirectShow codecs ignoring the MF versions? If not, then it’s like locking out at the app-level if not the OS-level.
I don’t share your optimism : it is not surprising that microsoft wants to get rid of the many bug reports related to the use of codec packs or some comercial products that break the playback.
And their announcement rather confirms what I found. This is the reason why all this buzz might be useful, as long as it is in beta, but I fear that this is already too late
Also wmp 12 still starts with interrogating the directshow engine before switching to media foundation, the thing is that the connection of the dshow filter is aborted in the midle when a microsoft media foundation filter exists for the input format.m
Gold start to ‘whoever’ can find references to earlier use. :)
It would be great to be able to choose which codecs are default – I often find that I need to install a codec pack to enable playback of a video that isn’t supported by Windows (even in Windows 7), but I don’t like the thought of the pack overriding the native codecs, for DVD decoding for example.
I couldn’t care less.
I have always just used Media Player Classic + FFDSHOW or just MPlayer
WMP’s horrible UI design is just horrible and the features are miles behind other media players
@jolbert
not that anyone’s interested in using these or anything:
- internet streaming from your own PC built right in
- play to other media devices
from some wierd tech blog:
“Though WMP12 is very similar to WMP11, it’s nonetheless a very compelling advance. Rather than ignoring the success of iTunes and the use of non-Microsoft video formats, Microsoft has acknowledged this reality and decided to make WMP work as well as it can with them. This attitude represents a hugely refreshing change from the software giant’s past behavior, and WMP is greatly improved as a result. The situation is similar to that with the Windows Live Essentials, where interoperability is a key long-term objective. This is good for consumers, and it will prove to be good for Microsoft. Long may it continue.”
Look at it this way, it’s a Beta Test and it is a Microsofts buisness what they support and what they have not had the time to do yet. If users want to use strange codecs then install Kubuntu or get a HDTV and stop ripping DVD’s.
Here’s to Aluminium Foil bike helmets…LOL
WMP12’s UI is a disaster. Switching between “Now playing” and “library” is a PITA because the button doesn’t appear in the same place so you constantly have to move your point up and down to switch. Such a simple UI thing, MS can’t get?
“Gold star to whomever can find references to earlier use”
MS wrote some pages about their history:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/press/dmtimeline.aspx
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/winhistorydesktop.mspx
Also:
Codecs were introduced in 16bit Windows with Video-for-Windows in the MS-Video Compression Manager.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms713492(VS.85).aspx
Unfortunately MS
If one is going to start a rumor in order to “damage” Microsoft (or whatever), at least make it believable….
Arnie: windows 3 was 16bit, but it’s kind of ambiguous as to which 16bit windows implementation it was introduced with :-/
If the block stays it was done for a good reason and that is the infamous “codec packs” you’ve all heard of them or seen someone promote them but they often do a good deal of damage to windows stability by including incompatible, duplicates, out of date codec etc. (one of the MS guys at Doom9 hinted this is the cause)
With the WMP codecs protected no longer can these codec packs over-ride decoding duties for natively supported formats and cause WMP,WMC or Windows itself to crash from that. Third parties can still tie in their codec into WMP (no-one ever bothers).
It’s basically a balancing act do you allow a small group of people who use a third party codec with Windows media player & media center to continue or annoy them by ensuring windows and media player deliver a more stable experience.
That is the only way to fight the codec packs because the people who promote them only tend to have half a clue and wont stop.
Microsoft made the right decision as far as I’m concerned, as most people who know better that players like MPC-HC or VLC have the codecs integrated into them and do not require such packs. The only sore point is that Microsoft need to keep the codecs for WMP/WMC updated in terms of compatibility as that will soften the blow for those power users who used WMP/WMC.
Codecs not natively supports by WMP/WMC are not affected.
@Dan
This is your opinion, but I doubt it reflects most users’.
I have never been a big fan of codec packs, always advised users to install FFDShow + Haali splitter, that’s all. With those you can decode most formats.
We all understand why Microsoft is doing that, but the result is the same as the integration of Internet explorer into the OS : force its own products to be used, even if this is for good reason. For Internet explorer, it was because most APIs were shared between the web browser and Windows. Here this is to avoid unstability.
But for both the result is that it will kill the concurrence. WMP and WMC remain by far the most used media players or media centers, here is the point.
So if we take DivX networks or CoreCodec for example who live on their licenses, this new approach will cause economical damages to those two.
To conclude, the blaming part is that Microsoft locked a portion of the registry for its own codecs only, this cannot be modified in any way (except hacking).
What should have been done is a sort of configuration tool which associates a media type (xvid, h264,…) to a decoder, as Microsoft did with default applications configuration (web browser, mail client…).
This solution is far more cleaner and avoids the mix with the filters merit and the playback break.
Ahahaha, quality.
Codec packs break playback. That’s gooooooooooooooooooood one.
How many video formats Windows can decode on itself? Wait, what you say, none*?
Also, it’s horrible news – Microsoft is trying to pull exactly what it did with web browsers and internet in general to video viewing. Except, with internet browsers, you’re at least allowed to install Firefox/Opera and use it as your default browser. With video files in WMP 12 (and every application that depends on it for video playback) – tough luck.
Those thundering cunts at Redmont cannot be even arsed to add multicore support to *their* very own wmv decoders and they should be allowed to force universal AVC decoder (or xvid/divx) on the world?!
*except for mpeg2 and wmv…
Has anyone gotten their Windows 7 betas to play any off the Xiph.Org codecs? Ogg/Vorbis, Theora, Flac? There have been people reporting that these are blocked by Windows Media Player in the Windows 7 beta, a significant and unfortunate event as these open, unencumbered formats are *the* legal alternative for content producers trying to avoid licensing fees and mandatory DRM.
So— whats the straight dope? Do the Xiph DS filters just need to be updated to obey some new API rules? Is Microsoft pulling some shenanigans?
I just tried this with the Windows 7 RC 7100 32bit with the latest 32bit Xiph filters and my OGGs played fine. Maybe this was an issue in the pre-RC post-beta random version you were using… ? Does it work for you with the RC?
Totally off topic — but is that tinfoil hat sign yours? Who’s got the rights to it?